people of color in the jim crow not just south of the north to map. >> in my book i talk about confronting and discussing with the president of "msnbc" in 2010 about pat buchanan and him being on that channel and saying you have a guy who is essentially friendly with white separatist, friendly with white supremacists. he has written a book that says america's diversity is its downfall. why is this guy in your channel? he said zero code you know he has a point of view that we should feature. .. [laughter] >> no thanks. you know, you bring up a good point. there's this fear about losing traditional america, well, they did lose it. thank god -- >> thank god. >> for some of us, right. you know, we don't have the jim crow signs, we don't have the lynching anymore. so we really did lose that traditional america that we never really had to begin, right? -- begin with, right? eric, i want to ask you, you know, race has -- you know, blackness has had a particular history with media where images were reality and, in fact, images and words supersealedded reality and in many ways still do.